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OOR Interview - Till - October 1997

They are German, they play a mechanical form of metal and worship fire, blood and deviant forms of sexual enjoyment. It is impossible to be more wrong than Rammstein.

But what is more important: The former East-Germans are not exactly ashamed about it. Their motto: There are so many predjudices about Germans, it would take more than a lifetime to get rid of them all. They even exaggerate it a bit by singing about sM, Necrophilia,sex between brothers, sisters and sex with animals. And all of that in the imperative. Kuss Mich, Buck Dich and Bestrafe Mich to name three titles from their recent album Sehnsucht.

"Dein gesicht is mir egal, Buch Dich" - I am not interested in your face Bend over! - you'd think that the Woman's Movement would start barricading, but the contrary is the case. Would that have something to do with the fact that the band have a homo-erotic image? For instance, the Dutch magazine Blvd added the band to an article on glamour queens, among them Freddie Mercury, Divine, Village People, Liberace and Adam Ant. Rammstein's addition had the following text:

"what to do with this combo from East Berlin? Are they dangerous? are they scary? are they subversive? They have shock value, that is certain. Rammstein simply don't give a shit and that is the only correct attitude. It may be sadomasochism, it may be degenerate, it may be a temporary phenomenon. At least Rammstein are as horny as hell and their music is irresistable. That is what it is about. Pop is entertainment. People with a message should go to the Post Office."

It's the same with RockBitch; We are confronted with people who go out of their way to find excuses to dislike the band, only to admit later that they DO like them. At the basis of all this fuss lies an incredibly infectious beat, that balances perfectly between metal and electronic dance music. The territory where acts from the other side, like Frontline Assembly, The Prodigy, Moby and the Chemical Brothers are searching for. Rammstein succeeds where another German band like Die Krupps failed. AND manages to break all records in the Heimat (Fatherland).

Their second CD Sehnsucht entered the charts at No 1, after the record had been left on the shelves since their first album was still selling. The band adapted to the situation with breakneck speed. Interviews last no longer than twenty minutes and take place with a random member of the band (since everyone is equally important: that is why there are six different versions of the CD Sehnsucht with different band members on the cover). The conversations take place in German and taking photographs is forbidden.

With these rules we begin our six hour drive to Erfurt, the first stop in the Former East Germany and home of Iceskater Gunda Neimann. Faded posters call on you to visit the Giants of Rock Tour with Meatloaf and the Scorpions. For tonight's concert, not one poster is to be found. Rammstein has sold out the Thuringerhalle completely. The people are coming for fireworks and fireworks is what they'll get. Rammstein brings a whole arsenal of explosives, which would have made bands like Dio and Venom envious. It is so over the top, it becomes fun again and the presentation of Till Lindemann (according to some, the sex symbol of the Nineties) with his sportschool appearance, has something so awkward, that we have to immediately abandon the idea that he would pave the way for the fourth reich. The chance of that happening is unthinkable. The singer looks a bit like Peter Ten Bos (famous Dutch singer) of Claw Boys Claw, and is just as likeable. Even though the singer rarely gives interviews, he is prepared to answer all of our questions - chain smoking all the while.

Did Rammstein consciously chose to be as politically incorrect as possible or is it just an added advantage? Till: I used to drum in a punk band that consisted of bass and drums. We used to work with guest-guitarists, usually Paul and Richard. We did a short tour where I changed instruments with the bassist in the encore. That was such a success, that Richard insisted on starting a project in which I would sing. Other people joined the band but only when I left Schwerin for Berlin did it take serious form.

Your band has taken its name from the airbase Rammstein, where about ten years ago, a plane crashed. The force of the explosion caught up with running victims and burned them in front of the cameras. Not only have you named the band after the airbase but you perform the song Rammstein with a burning coat. That seems kind of rough on the families of the victims... Till: We saw those images on the television. This hellish incident got to us with such intensity that we wanted to make a musical memorial, At the time, we didn't have a name for the band and Rammstein was one of the first songs we finished. It seemed like a good idea to continue it. I have never had any complaints about our name from the audience, it is just journalists who look for a double meaning. We simply describe what we saw, crying mothers and dying children. Even the birds stopped singing at the sight of this total inferno. One would expect time to stop, for the Earth to darken. But the strange thing was that the sun kept shining. That is such a strange contrast, with every catastrophe that hits human life, life goes on..."

With that burning coat you certainly rub salt in the wounds! Till: Some people feel we are taking the piss because they think we try to ridicule the affair. But I see it as a form of identification. And as an element of the show, it is fairly easy to sing: A man burns, but I take it one step further by wearing a burning coat. And I burn myself regularly..."

For someone who sings about SM, this must be genuine pleasure? Till: Bestrafe Mich has nothing to do with SM. Even though I am an athiest - everyone in the band is athiest by the way - I have a feeling of being punished constantly. When one believes in a higher power, it makes sense that all the good you get is ascribed to that higher power. Der Herr Gott Nimmt, Der Herr Gott Gibt. That comes from the Bible. God has rewarded me, gave me something good. But he only gives to the people he loves. I feel only punished. And it isn't only me, the bigger part of humanity is being punished constantly. Why is there so much misery and injustice in the world?

Why do you feel punished? Till: I would have to go back too far. It is a whole string of little things that keep recurring. All my love affairs for instance, end in disappointments and sadness. Just like the four seasons, the misery keeps on coming back. Why can't it be summer for longer than three months? One can go on holiday to enjoy the summer longer, but if life itself does not offer that summertime, there is no escape. And I am not just talking about myself, but also about the situation the others are in. Our song Tier is about incest. Sex between father and daughter is something that only happens among animals. "Was macht ein mann der zwischen mensch und tier nicht unterscheiden kann?" is something I ask at the beginning of the song. "Er wird zu seinen tochter gehen. Was willst du, was fuhlst du. Du bist eigentlich ein Tier". I have a daughter of twelve I try to raise. And I try very hard to understand how someone can answer to himself for the love he makes with his own child. I simply cannot imagine that someone would lie on top of his child and be aroused. In the first part, I describe the situation with one conclusion; only animals can do this. There is no difference between animal behaviour and this. In the second part, I ask myself "was macht eine frau, die zwischen Tier und mann nicht unterscheiden kann?" here, the focus lies on the child who has grown up to be a woman, but has to go through life with the nightmare from her childhood. She writes a letter to herself about her youth. When her father slept with her. She basically became an animal. The fact is she has been destroyed. It is a cycle: What happens to you in your childhood you have to carry for the rest of your life.

When I have written a song, it is discussed if it is acceptable with the other musicians, the producer, the record company, with some friends. You look for acceptance: Is this possible or not? Can it be misinterpreted or can it be brought out like this? We are six people in the band so you must understand we have to talk a lot before something is brought out. But the whole band supports everything we have made. The limitations are in the German music laws. Things like bestiality and incest are on the index, so you know beforehand that on certain lyrics you are wasting your energy, for the simple reason that they will be forbidden and a bleep will come on the record. That happened to the first pressings of our first CD. But the complaint was declared invalid. The censured CD was taken out of the shops and has become a collectors item for the fans. Because of the bleeps... When we started work on our second album that trial was still like a shadow behind us. Our record company has stood by us completely and said: If we can't pass the first CD through the index we can forget Tier. But nothing happened and we are very glad we stood by our work.

Is it your intention to shock? or is that one of the advantages? Till: I try to put myself in the mind of certain people: how do some fucked up situations happen. I want to enter their brain: a space with brightly coloured and black and white cobwebbed nooks and crannies, the ones where you don't like to come close because of the mess you will find. I only try to describe, without attacking. I understand that people can be shocked by that. Only five minutes ago, I read in a newspaper that we incite people to violence. I have read that before, but the reaction that came closest to me was a letter from a girl that had been raped when she was nine or ten years old. She wrote that she could identify with the song Weisses Fleisch - that was also in the index for a short while. Because I spoke about rape while she couldn't. She had grown up with the idea that she had to keep that period from her youth a secret, couldn't tell anyone. Through my song, she understood she could talk about it. She was so grateful I had written that song... I still don't understand what people get so excited about. I have seen in Indonesia what happens to children and prostitutes. And if you would know what happens in this town at night behind the curtains, my lyrics are very innocent. Those little studios and basement steps of the Red Light district, those small SM shops with cages and whips: how sick is humanity? and in comparison, how little the themes are that I use in my lyrics, or the things I do onstage?

And yet you are obsessed by the things that take place in those little studios and shops because that is what you write about...

Till: That has more to do with the fact that all the other subjects are so dull. It has all been said already! What I hear in German music doesn't grab me by the balls. It is all about love tra la la

Love Rammstein style is: Buck dich, dein gesicht ist mir egal?

Till: That is from the movie Tokyo Dekadenz, about an incredibly wealthy man from Tokyo who is married to three or four women. He can't find any satisfaction though. He thinks of all sorts of things, buys the most expensive stuff and pays a lot of money for sexual arousal, but it doesn't make him happy. He works twelve to fourteen hours a day, his whole life revolves around money. With money he tries to buy the love he lacks. And despite all his money, that doesn't work which makes him unhappier.

Do you think that is how people who see a Rammstein show will experience the song?

Till: Most people want to see a good show. If they remember any of the lyrics, then I consider that an advantage. But when I place myself in the shoes of the civil servant from our last single Du Hast and sing: Will you stay faithful to this person until death do you part? the crowd shouts at the top of their lungs NO! I don't even have to sing it myself anymore, the audience will do that for me. The vow you take when you get married I find dubious anyway. How can you fix your whole life on one and the same person. Marriage is not a tattoo!

Careful dear Reader, you wouldn't say it, but the last remark was a joke! Rammstein's music does contain a humouristic element. German humour can certainly be funny, although it is usually based on power. Some Dutchmen think that since Hitler nothing good came out of Germany (Translators note: this doesn't mean Dutchmen think Hitler was great, quite the contrary, that after Hitler, all that came out of Germany was the epitomy of evil), for the Germans the situation is a bit more delicate, especially when we make jokes about the second world war (with the most obvious gag that we want our bicycles back)(Translators note: IN wWII the Germans confiscated a lot of bicycles in the Netherlands). But also on the German side many casualties fell. The uncle of one of the musicians from Rammstein, for instance, fell from a watchtower in a concentration camp.

Till: Even when we sound nagging and over-serious, we try to put as much humour as possible in our show so it will become a little lighter. But we are not a happy band. When it doesn't come naturally, you shouldn't try to add to it by force. Perhaps we will succeed some day. With Engel we have taken a different road. By adding the woman's voice we achieved a nice contrast.

Was Heino perhaps an influence when we talk about your voice?

Till: No, far more the Sisters of Mercy. I didn't try to imitate that deep voice, but rather that exaggerated sound. I have a low voice. I can do that. What I have noticed though is this: When you sing in English no-one is interested in what you sing about. Listen to the dark stuff, bands like Marilyn Manson, Type O Negative, Ministry or Megadeth sing about! Just because we are German, people try to label us.

YOur music and the German language have something frighteningly militant about them

Till: It isn't that we want to be a German band, that is what we are! I know that many Germans are ashamed about their heritage. Because of the warlike character of our ancestors I understand that tendency. But I am German nevertheless. That is the problem with all those German bands. Whether they make crossover, punk or whatever, everything comes from someplace else, it doesn't have roots. In the sixties, the German Schlager (type of singalong song) existed, there was a clear German musical landscape. But at one point in time it turned around. They got fixated on the US or England. They have tried to copy stuff and import them into this country. I don't know what causes it, but for me Kraftwerk was the first real German band. An example to many, apart from the Scorpions, the only German band who were noticed worldwide and certainly the only band who became known with the German language.

Because they are unique, Kraftwerk was no copy, they were themselves! But with Kraftwerk too, links were made to the ubermensch-idea. We are not interested in politics however! we stand beside reality. It is an exaggeration to say that we are just artists, but we stand for our music and not for messages. We are from the former DDR, perhaps that has something to do with it. We haven't had it very easy,but we can say from the bottom of our heart that socialism and everything that the DDR stood for also had its good sides: harmony and a sense of togetherness aimed strongly at the collective and the community. You heard on the news mostly how bad it was in the DDR, but it wasn't all that bad. There were things that were no good, but you could live relatively normally without the consumerlust people have nowadays and which is not making people happier exactly. It was about different things. Life was organised, there was work for everyone, the rents were low, food was cheap, creches were free, all social circumstances were well taken care of. It was commercial things that were lacking. A good TV set cost about five to six monthly wages, for a car you had to wait at least ten years. Commercial stuff - consumer goods they were called with us - were secondary. That people weren't happy about that because they wanted to have everything anyway has been forgotten a bit. People wanted a VW Golf or a HiFi set. And they wanted to be able to travel. That is why the wall had to go. But there is still a wall of sorts. When we need computer parts, for instance, we still have to go to West Berlin. There are still no specialised stores in the old East. The borders have gone but there is still a mental barrier. Hopefully our children won't be bothered by that, but it will exist all through our lifetime. I am convinced that many people would love to have the wall back, go back to the old situation. In the old days there was unity, now for many it has turned into lonliness. At the moment there are unemployed, homeless,beggars, skinheads and rightwing radicals. They didn't exist in the old East. They were put behind bars straight away, everything was perfectly organised. Capitalism has hit us like a tidal wave. And many people have drowned in it.

Would you yourself want the wall back?

Till: With the Bass player, I am the only one who worked. The other band members were able to make their money with music. When you made serious music, you were recognised as an artist and you had quite a lot of freedom. If you had to work, you got to see the unpleasant sides of socialism: subservience, one person was more equal than another, you know what I mean. So I never felt any need to rebuild the wall. And certainly not now we are doing so well with our music. But I did have my doubts for a long time.

© 2005 Sue Lindemann